Son Screwed Up

[logans105]

So here's the story, my Marine before leaving for boot had some tats, he was okayed with them and after boot had some more, well now he's a lance corporal about a week and decides while out with another marine to go for another tat, CAN WE SAY DUMBASS !! , the story goes, he was told that the latest one was okay to do by of all people the guy doing the tat and another marine, so he listens, anyway, he gets this new tat and so does his buddie, they go back to base and find out that it may be alot more trouble than worth, well rather than try to hide it or lie about it, he goes to his corporal and shows it to him and asks what to do next, he then goes to his sergeant and talks to him, the sergeant explains to him what a dumbass he is and says that since he hasn't had any marks on him since joining and he does his job very well and hasn't every done anything to get into any trouble at all he feels that either it's a MJP or a warning to be given him, okay he knows he did a wrong thing, so he's ready for what's coming to him.
so he's told that the sergeants don't feel a MJP is the answer since he didn't do it to **** anyone off or anything like it, so they are suggesting the warning paper, well,,guess again, he calls me this morning very upset and says he went in front of his first sergeant (which isn't anyone to **** off ) and basically comes out of it with the total understanding that this first sergeant intends to have him thrown out of the corps, upset is to say the least, he doesn't want out, he knows he messed up and wants to stay in, so now he goes to see the co tomorrow, he's pretty sure he's done, some of you have been in longer and dealt with this type of thing, so what are your feelings and thoughts?? I know that they have been dealing with drinking and problems with drugs and other things, but to me kicking him out is a bit much, discipline is a must but to kick him out ... maybe it's just me but I think it's a bit much... worried..

[logans105]

well, just got off the phone again, seems that he's now been told by the legal services on base that tomorrow the rumor is that he's going to get his leave for xmas revoked so he won't be coming home friday and they will either be booting him out or MJP and taking more than half his pay out of him for two months, basically 3/4 of his pay will be taken from him and his rank..wow all for a tattoo, I guess he should have gotten drunk or done something like the other marines he knows have done..I just can't believe all this...discipline yes, over the edge, no..this really seems like it's over the edge to me..

[Big Jim]

Listen..first Of All, It's Called N-J-P Non-Judicial Punishment And He Should Probably Take What Ever They Give Him And Be Happy They Don't Kick Him Out Of The Corps Because Its A Lesser Punishment Than Being Discharge. If They Do Decide To Give Him Article 15 Of The Ucmj, Uniformed Code Of Military Justice, They Won't Court Martial Him, Which Is The Beginning For A Less Than Honorable Discharge. Be Happy That He Is Learning What He Needs To Know According To Marine Corps Standards. He Was Obviously Told And Informed About The Tattoo Policy And Yet He Chose To Push The Limit And Now He'll Learn. I Don't Feel He'll Be Kicked Out Over This Unless He Got A Tattoo Somewhere Really Visible...did He?! But Either Way, Don't Believe Any Rumors And Tell Him Not To...I Know Its Difficult But Rumors Aren't Fact And Waiting For A Rumor To Come True Can Cause Undue Stress...just Wait And See What Happens, I Bet It Won't Be As Bad As You Think....

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

It isn't at all over the top. There are rules and regulations in place. Failing to follow those regulations is a crime. About the best he can hope for is that he will be NJP'ed and that they'll take some of his pay.

We play by big-boy rules. If you do something wrong you pay the consequences. He knew he was screwing up because he bothered to ask if it was OK. Of course, rather than asking someone in his chain of command he decided to ask the person that would be getting paid for doing the work. Very poor decision.

[GySgtRet]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Good order and discipline never hurt anybody. Follow the rules and you will be fine. NJP, well whatever the Commanding Officer wants to do. I am sure this young Marine knew what was right from wrong and chose to be talked into something that he thought he could blow-off, not in my Marine Coprs. I think that a CO can still give a sentence to the brig can't they? At least restriction to the barracks. I back the First SGt 100%, you can't let things go especially when you know right from wrong. I wish moms and dads had some kind of training in what to excpect for when their young Marines do things.

Good luck ma'am.

[logans105]

I thank you all for your comments, and just for the record, I have always made my son pay for his actions, I do believe he shouldn't get off with a slap on the wrist, and yes I think he knew what he did, I do give him credit for not hiding it from his sargeant and being man enough to own up to his really stupid choice he made, he could have done what his buddie is doing and that is to hide the tattoo as his sargeants told him to do, so I do give him some credit for doing the right thing after messing up so bad. I know he'll get whatever they deem right for what he did, but to kick him out would not be a good thing, even though he messed up , he still doesn't want out, he knows he has to deal with the big boys and do whats right. and I don't really need someone to tell me to train me in how things work, I have had months of training and have a pretty good idea how this goes...I'm not one of those "my poor baby" moms, never was, never will be, I am more disappointed in him that any of you could ever be. hopefully things will work out for the best. again , thanks for you comments

[Phantom Blooper]

Ma'am, it's not the tattoo. It's Disobeying A Lawful Order under the UCMJ. When this policy was put in place by the new incoming commandant a few months ago ALL Marines were informed by an ALLMAR bulletin and waivers were needed for Marines with existing tattoos and sleeved tattoos. You can do a search on this site about tattoos...probally in the July 07 time frame and you should be able to get answers.

And for the record...orders are orders.... The getting drunk and doing something that other Marines have done could have the alternative of getting court martial ed and booted out. Some get over and some get caught. Just because it's the Marine Corps .....that's life.

I.E. Speeding,running lights just to name a few. Permanent ink is kind of hard to hide in uniform.

As long as he keeps his nose clean it is not the end of his career. Live and learn.

What was the tattoo of?

[sparkie]

The Tatoo was based on stupidity,,,, And I'm sure it reflects that very well. Phantom,,, You are so right.

[logans105]

Stupidity is totally the word I used with him on the phone several times today, I figured it wasn't worth my chewing his butt since I'm sure he's getting more than enough of that as we speak. Stupid, yes and when I asked him if he was done with the tattos, he said "yes I most certainly am" , so at least I hope that he's learned a hard lesson from his being so stupid and I'm sure over the next days,months or whatever the military sees fit he learns to deal with the actions he takes and take it like a man. Life is hard enough without making your own problems, he will learn some great lessons before he's done and hopefully he'll move on from this and someday look back at it and wonder why he was so stupid in the first place.. again thanks for the input..

[SlingerDun]

discipline is a must but to kick him out ... maybe it's just me but I think it's a bit much... worried..

Thats hard boiled. What and where is this ink?

--->Dave

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Ma'am, I hope you understand that we mean no disrespect to you at all. We were all LCPLs once and I promise each of us did our fair share of stupid things. But we also get defensive pretty quickly. When you said that the Marine Corps was going to far to remove him it hit a nerve with me. They would be totally within their rights to remove a Marine for willfully disobeying a direct order. The tattoo policy is harsh. Many believe that it is too strict. But, the Commandant is the Commandant, and we do as he says.

I have no idea what course of action your son's CO will take. It could be to remove him from the Marine Corps. It is probably more likely that he will be restricted to quarters and lose some money and maybe rank. Either way, your son can take this lesson and apply it to his life and be better off for it.

[GySgtRet]

If you still have this question after the dialog I would suggest that you research the ALMAR that has been mentioned. This ALMAR gives the prescise order of the letter of the Commandant of the Marine Corps. Please search around the June to July timeframe and get back with us when you get your answer. If the regular Marine Corps adheers to the ALMAR it will apply to the IRR also.

logans105,

Ma'am,

One of the worse things that can occur for your son is a "SEA LAWYER", this is really waht can make a Marine look and act really stupid. I would have hoped that the Marine Corps would not still have them but I am afraid that they still exsist in the Corps. These "SEA LAWYERS" exsist in every unit unfortunantely and they think they have all of the correct answers and
counsel, they do not. This could be your son's undoing if he listens to them. The 1st Sgt is more than likely scaring your son and will be watching your son and the rest of the command as I said before good order and discipline is for every Marine not just some. while it seems to you to be an un-do harshness this is warranted completly and will be a lesson for your son and all new members of this command.

We wish your son well, and hopefully this will be the end of this.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Ma'am:

Having been a proud member of the LCpl mafia, and gotten over it (LOL), the bottom line is, young Marines do stupid things. It's a fact of life. Good 1stSgt's don't take it personal, but they do strive to instruct the young lads (and lasses) in the proper way of things. Some times, that means NonJudicial Punishment as a corrective measure. Other times, that means a good ass chewing.

Can his Christmas leave be revoked? Oh yeah. While hard on you for sure, leave is a privledge, not a right. Doing stoopid things get's that privledge revoked.

Gunny, CO's can't put a Marine in the brig for simple NJP's anymore, that takes a courtmartial. They can make em pretty miserable with 45 days restriction, 45 days extra police duty (logans, that's basically every **** detail the 1stSgt/Plt Sgt can think of for 45 days..and believe me, these guys can get pretty creative...) and loss of 1 stripe, plus loss of money. Personally, I'd take 15 days in the brig instead of all that, but that's just me I guess.

Will he be discharged? It's going to depend on where the tat is, what it is, and how really ****ed off he's made his chain of command by violating this order. I'd err on the side of 'no' right now, but it really depends.

Either way, he's going to be an unhappy camper on the skyline for awhile.

Poolee, don't get ANY ink, ANYwhere. Period. It'll make your life much easier in the long run. Trust me. Resist the temptation to be stupid.

And no, I'm not anti-tat, I've got two, both while swilling San Miguel beer in Olongopo, P.I., and both were 10 bucks each. Done with a bamboo needle, too.

[logans105]

Good morning gentleman,
After many hours of thinking and not sleeping last night, doing what a good mother does..lol.. I spoke to my son yesterday a total of four or five times, at first he was more than upset, then he went into kicking his own behind without the help of anyone else, then he was trying the ticked off attitude of "over a tat !" crap, but last night his last call to me was the call that hit home with me, finally he settled down and realized that he caused this on himself and he has to take what's coming for his actions..it was a blessed moment for me to say the least. He told me that this has to be the most idiotic thing he's done to date, but he said that the first sargeant yelling at him for hours and getting in his face was not the worse of it, but aftet the first sargeant left the room and he sat alone with his sargeant that he respects more than anyone, his sargeant told him that he was really saddened by this whole mess because he didn't want to loose a good marine over a tat, but that it wasn't just the tat, it was that he made a poor judgement and caused this to himself, so my son now tells me that the thing that has him more ticked with himself is that he disappointed his sargeant, the man he looks up to so much..yippie, finally he gets it ! I told him that you have to earn respect and you have to give it, we talked for several hours and he knows that whatever they hand down to him it's his own doing and he deserves it, so yes, even though I will be crushed if he can't home friday as planned, it is what it is and he has to be a man and take what he gets for his actions. I told him that it wasn't so much the tat, it's the orders, he dis obeyed orders and that's a huge thing in any military and if they let him stay he should say his prayers and thank God he's still there. So I do appreciate what you have all said to me over this and I take no offense whatsoever to any of your words..as for the poolee, hell NO!! don't get not one tat, it's not worth it, stay clean and do what your told and you'll not go through this type of thing.
My son goes before the first sargeant again this morning to find out what they intend to do with him, I basically told him to be calm, and deal with whatever it is like a man. He was told that they were planning to possibly take away his leave (which we figured was going to happen) and he'd loose rank, loose 3/4 of his pay for the next two months,restricted to base, extra duties and the whole nine yards so yes, he's ready for it, he believes that is worth it if they don't kick him out as he doesn't want to leave. so in the end he'll have learned the hard way a valuable lesson, and hopefully he'll go on to be a better marine.
Thank you for your words of honesty and encouragement for me, this is a hard road to take for a mom, your natural tendency is to try and protect your children, so knowing this is something for which you have no answers and can only sit back and wait and watch is hard to do, but it will be done.

Again, thanks to all of you, God bless you and keep you all safe.

[Phantom Blooper]

I know you are worried about your son and as a MOM one of the toughest jobs in the Marine Corps! Please let us know what happened to this young man. As you stated and it is true we are a brother and sisterhood in the Marines and your son although you birthed and raised, the Marines bred into manhood.

If it is not too stressful or heartbreaking please let us know. As you stated a day late and dollar short so to speak this may be a lesson for young poolees that come here asking questions and are hell bent on getting a tattoo. Take care! Thank you! And good luck to your son!